Why am i getting paid less for saving more?

IanEIanE Member Posts: 86

seems like i actually saved more this last OHM hour but only got about 1/2 of the points as the one before.
What Gives?

data below...

Date Action Participating Points Base Points Streak Bonus Status level bonus #OhmHour Date Forecast Actual Usage Savings
8/1/17 Rewards for #OhmHour 1 1176 224 280 672 7/30/17 3.2508 0.4854 2.7654
7/28/17 Rewards for #OhmHour 1 2318 450 518 1350 7/25/17 3.07992 0.4704 2.60952

Best Answers

  • IanEIanE Member Posts: 86
    Accepted Answer

    yeah it's probably time to add another tier over platinum so the bigger savers can still be rewarded for their contributions...

  • IanEIanE Member Posts: 86
    Accepted Answer

    @Nasha Garcia start automating everything :) it makes everything much easier when it's not a manual effort

«1

Answers

  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoMember, Moderator Posts: 1,625

    The points per kWh varies from #OhmHour to #OhmHour.
    It is something we have no visibility of and it's beyond our control. If you take the base points and divide it by the kWhs saved you will get the numbers. For the last 10 OhmHours (for me) the points per kWh has averaged just under 170.

  • IanEIanE Member Posts: 86

    if thats the case it should be posted when each ohm hour is announced . there should also be a setting to opt out of hours that are too cheap.

  • John KJohn K Lake Forest - Hikers and Bikers TeamMember Posts: 585
    edited August 2017

    @IanE said:
    if thats the case it should be posted when each ohm hour is announced . there should also be a setting to opt out of hours that are too cheap.

    Since OC also redistributes the negative points from people who go over their forecast, I don't think they know what the value will be until after the OH is over. I don't know if that is a significant portion of the payout or not, but based on the large number of members on my team who seem to go over each hour, I'd have to wonder. I also wonder if the declining payout per kWh saved could be a result of more people avoiding the penalties.

  • snetphiliesnetphilie ConcordMember, Moderator Posts: 139

    I got 94 and 93 points per kWh in the last two OhmHours. These are the lowest I've ever seen. Combine that with the change in Baseline Boost token price, and I'm definitely thinking OhmConnect is evaluating their payouts and this might be the new normal. With this level of payout, and my current streak bonus, OhmConnect would be paying for 17% of my electricity bill. So in theory, if that percentage applied to everyone, and if everyone participated in OhmHours, we would be reducing the price of energy by a bit over 17%. Sounds like a pretty reasonable assessment. Hence, why I think these lower payouts are here to stay.

  • Hunhoff1319Hunhoff1319 Member Posts: 39

    My most recent OhmHour I received 80.41 points per kwh (base amount). My streaks and bonuses have increased but base has decreased dramatically. What I also don't understand is this most recent event should have had a LARGE payout (for OC and myself alike). 3 o'clock ohmhour on a 95 degree day. I'm Platinum with a streak of 18 so wondering if the bonus points are playing a role in the decrease in my base. I sent them a message but not sure it will do anything.

  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoMember, Moderator Posts: 1,625

    @Hunhoff1319 said:
    My most recent OhmHour I received 80.41 points per kwh (base amount). My streaks and bonuses have increased but base has decreased dramatically. What I also don't understand is this most recent event should have had a LARGE payout (for OC and myself alike). 3 o'clock ohmhour on a 95 degree day. I'm Platinum with a streak of 18 so wondering if the bonus points are playing a role in the decrease in my base. I sent them a message but not sure it will do anything.

    Bonus points do not have any part to play in reducing your payment. OC bids capacity into the DRAM market (Distributed Response Auction Market). If their bid is not accepted they don't sell anything back to the grid. When that happens there is no #OhmHour. They don't get paid and we don't get paid. It's a competitive world out there and there are other participants trying to get a slice of DRAM. My guess is that they are having to compete with other participants and they are having to lower their bids.

  • Hunhoff1319Hunhoff1319 Member Posts: 39

    @UkiwiS said:

    @Hunhoff1319 said:
    My most recent OhmHour I received 80.41 points per kwh (base amount). My streaks and bonuses have increased but base has decreased dramatically. What I also don't understand is this most recent event should have had a LARGE payout (for OC and myself alike). 3 o'clock ohmhour on a 95 degree day. I'm Platinum with a streak of 18 so wondering if the bonus points are playing a role in the decrease in my base. I sent them a message but not sure it will do anything.

    Bonus points do not have any part to play in reducing your payment. OC bids capacity into the DRAM market (Distributed Response Auction Market). If their bid is not accepted they don't sell anything back to the grid. When that happens there is no #OhmHour. They don't get paid and we don't get paid. It's a competitive world out there and there are other participants trying to get a slice of DRAM. My guess is that they are having to compete with other participants and they are having to lower their bids.

    I get that. It just seems pretty drastic. Oh well. Their response was pretty generic essentially saying they get paid different amounts per event. My thing was just that this recent event seemed like a perfect event for more points - and it's decreased by about 75% of what I would typically get. Again, oh well.

  • John KJohn K Lake Forest - Hikers and Bikers TeamMember Posts: 585
    edited August 2017

    @Hunhoff1319 said:
    . . . this most recent event should have had a LARGE payout (for OC and myself alike). 3 o'clock ohmhour on a 95 degree day.

    This is no longer the time of day when the grid is under the greatest stress. With all the solar installations, as long as the sun is out, those solar systems are contributing excess production to the grid. It is the early evening hours (8-9) when the utilities provide the most energy. See the curve in this thread: https://forum.ohmconnect.com/discussion/comment/5162#Comment_5162 . Regardless, you can't predict prices on the hourly energy market.

  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoMember, Moderator Posts: 1,625
    edited August 2017

    @Hunhoff1319. Here's an update for you on my own experience as my #OHMHOUR on 8/2 scored overnight. This was a double OhmHour from 6-8 pm during which I saved 7.783 kWh. My base points for that event were 643 indicating a payout of 82.62 points per kWh and a new low. The previous lowest was 122.31.

    Time will tell but it would appear that there's been a significant change in the program.

  • taZZZkittytaZZZkitty Member Posts: 90

    I participated in that same OH @UkiwiS and if I did the math right I got 195.88 per kwh base. I saved 4.865 and my base pay was 953. I think it depends a lot on your area. My area must use a lot of expensive dirty energy during these OHs because I have been fortunate lately to see some pretty high payouts with only a little bit of fluctuation. I am in Visalia if that helps you figure this all out.

  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoMember, Moderator Posts: 1,625
    edited August 2017

    @Sabreena Good info and yes, we do know it's dependent on ZIP (actually more likely Utility). As a matter of interest, what does your "energy snapshot" email have for the "participation" in this event? You should have got it this morning. The participation numbers are shown if you scroll to the bottom of the message...

  • taZZZkittytaZZZkitty Member Posts: 90

    @UkiwiS 38056 people participated and abated 2148 lbs of CO2 altogether. That's weird. Same amount of people as yours says but less CO2?

  • Heather R. WeatherHeather R. Weather Member Posts: 125
    edited August 2017

    mine says for the 6-8pm wed event in San Diego: 38056 people participated and abated 6030 lbs of CO2 altogether

    ...I earned 82.89 points per kWh

  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoMember, Moderator Posts: 1,625
    > @Heather R. Weather said:
    > mine says for the 6-8pm wed event in San Diego: 38056 people participated and abated 6030 lbs of CO2 altogether
    >
    > ...I earned 82.89 points per kWh

    I'm certain that Visalia is not in SDG&Es territory. The hypothesis that the rate is tied to the utility is confirmed.
  • Heather R. WeatherHeather R. Weather Member Posts: 125
    edited August 2017

    @UkiwiS said:
    > @Heather R. Weather said:
    > mine says for the 6-8pm wed event in San Diego: 38056 people participated and abated 6030 lbs of CO2 altogether
    >
    > ...I earned 82.89 points per kWh

    I'm certain that Visalia is not in SDG&Es territory. The hypothesis that the rate is tied to the utility is confirmed.

    oh its definitely not. I had no idea what that name meant and just looked it up. i think its SCE?


    I never really did the calculations. The normal 1-hour events prior to that show that 7/31 earned me 150 pts per kWh and 7/30 earned 132.29 pts per kWh. this last one was a BIG decrease, about half.

    For me, since I live in coastal SD which is generally mild and I dont even have the option of AC in my house, Im always happy to participate, even with my meager forecasts (I mean that 2-hour one was a total of 0.5955 forecast for me even at 6-8pm...guess im not even cooking lately, haha). Typically at the time I am busy outside working in my garden so participation is natural and all I can change is turning the fridge off, which the smart plug does.

    ...But for someone who suffered without AC when they normally would and received that small of a payout, I would assume the drastic change is irritating. But maybe thats not the case? Maybe my points per kWh is so small because a lot people in my zipcode dont run AC?...but areas that everyone does, those users get higher points? Id imagine most people in East county or RB would be very reluctant to participate during a super hot day and should have higher incentives.

  • Hunhoff1319Hunhoff1319 Member Posts: 39
    > @UkiwiS said:
    > @Hunhoff1319. Here's an update for you on my own experience as my #OHMHOUR on 8/2 scored overnight. This was a double OhmHour from 6-8 pm during which I saved 7.783 kWh. My base points for that event were 643 indicating a payout of 82.62 points per kWh and a new low. The previous lowest was 122.31.
    >
    > Time will tell but it would appear that there's been a significant change in the program.

    Thanks for updating with your personal stats. I guess it's safe to say the payouts are trending lower. My 8/2 2 hour ohm hour payout was significantly higher than the 7/31 one at 97.06, although still lower than payouts from the past.
  • taZZZkittytaZZZkitty Member Posts: 90

    @Heather R. Weather Yes, we have SCE here. Your hypothesis is intriguing. It gets VERY hot here during the summer. It has been regularly upper 90s and over 100 during the OH times and it sucks to turn off the AC during them but I do it because I get paid so much to do so especially with my platinum status and streak. So maybe you are right that they are giving us more incentive to turn the AC off where it is hotter? Not sure I would do so for only a few bucks because it gets really hot and miserable in here really quick especially during the 2 hour events. But I got paid almost 56 bucks for the last 2 hour OH and that made me forget about how miserable it was pretty quick! lol

  • Heather R. WeatherHeather R. Weather Member Posts: 125

    @Sabreena yeah, your commentary definitely supports the theory I have. I'd really like to know the payout to members who are in San Diego county and part of SDG&E, but more east where they experience the same temperatures during the summer as you. I am wondering if its the same rate I got. We haven't even reached out hot period here - typically October sees a lot of heat waves. Maybe SDG&E users will see larger payouts later down the road. But Im hoping those heat waves dont come at all - life without AC during them is really miserable. Come home at 5pm and its 88 degrees inside your house and no chance of a breeze...You start getting delusional and try to make poor man's AC out of a frozen 2 liter in front of a fan. haha..doesnt work very well btw.

    this is what the weather is like..i gather most people are outside enjoying it and not using things in their house.

  • taZZZkittytaZZZkitty Member Posts: 90

    Omg I wish it was like that here in the summer! That looks like a nice spring or fall day here in the central valley. Won't see those temps until maybe Oct. I would probably literally die without AC. Temps are averaging about 99 for the foreseeable future with some days higher than that.

  • scbakerscbaker Member Posts: 2

    This is a fascinating thread - thanks to all who have contributed! I've been concerned about my points recently and was naively thinking the points/KWh should be steady. However, it makes perfect sense why it should trend up and down. Here's what I've been seeing (base points):

    And as someone from mild, coastal San Diego, I'm amazed at those who have baselines in the 8KWh range (mine is usually under 0.5KWh). I'm also a little jealous of all the OhmHour points they're earning. Until I think about high their bills must be. I guess I should be content with my small OhmHour payouts ;-)

  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoMember, Moderator Posts: 1,625
    edited August 2017
    @scbaker Nice graph. OC had a special 3X payment for the flex alert so IMO the base is 133 on 6/21 rather than 399. :smiley:
  • taZZZkittytaZZZkitty Member Posts: 90

    I actually had a thought on this issue last night about the difference in pay between coastal and inland areas. I'm not sure it's so much that they are willing to pay us more where it is hotter so that we will shut off our AC as that people in general use the AC more so our area uses a whole lot more dirty energy. I'm sure solar doesn't cover near what we need. So they are willing to pay a higher price to get us to shut off more stuff than for a coastal area where solar (and other renewables) probably covers a much larger portion of your energy needs since much fewer people use AC. It's a minor distinction I know and ultimately leads to the same outcome.

  • SrelazSrelaz FullertonMember Posts: 123

    I have SCE, and it does get hot where I am and during the 2 hour OhmHour events the temp in my house climbs significantly. Maybe just crappy insulation but it went from 78 to 85 degrees in the house after 2 hours when the event ended. I just did the points per OH conversion myself. The 8/1/17 event was a disappointing 80.6 points per kWh saved and all-time low. 6/22/17 event was the peak at 399.89 base points per kWh. 8/3 ticked up slightly at 97.2 points per kWh not used. I saw nothing less than 125 points per kWh prior to these last 2 events. Upper 80's forecasted for my location through Thursday and 91 Friday. No Ohmhours scheduled yet to my knowledge.

  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoMember, Moderator Posts: 1,625
    @Srelaz the 399.99 points was due to OC paying 3X the base rate so IMO that OhmHour should be 133 points per kWh.
  • SrelazSrelaz FullertonMember Posts: 123

    @UkiwiS said:
    @Srelaz the 399.99 points was due to OC paying 3X the base rate so IMO that OhmHour should be 133 points per kWh.

    239.8 on 6/17/2017 and 2/20/2017. Those are the next highest.

  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoMember, Moderator Posts: 1,625

    @Srelaz said:

    @UkiwiS said:
    @Srelaz the 399.99 points was due to OC paying 3X the base rate so IMO that OhmHour should be 133 points per kWh.

    239.8 on 6/17/2017 and 2/20/2017. Those are the next highest.

    That's very close to my max too which is 236.6.

  • shannyneshannyne Member Posts: 1
    So as time goes on and more people are using the program as well...there may also be less payouts...from all I'm reading on these forums I see a correlation in dates ohms/kwh usage but also looking at dates and from what I see as more users save errgu/money we get less of a payout anyone else see that?
  • Steve ESteve E Member, Moderator Posts: 329

    @[email protected].com said:
    So as time goes on and more people are using the program as well...there may also be less payouts...from all I'm reading on these forums I see a correlation in dates ohms/kwh usage but also looking at dates and from what I see as more users save errgu/money we get less of a payout anyone else see that?

    They have adjusted how people are paid over the course of the program and introduced features such as streaks and the level multipliers. Streaks affect the payout and with people having streaks well over 50 now (I myself will be at 54 when all my TBD OhmHours are reconciled) this no doubt is a significant factor. A streak of 50 will add a further bonus of 250% in addition to any bonus you receive for your tier‚ so obviously all of this affects the base payout that OhmConnect can afford to make.

    I am sure there will be additional changes made over time to try and engage and reward as many users as possible in order to maximize the impact of the platform and this will no doubt include alterations to the way some things are done.

    Looking back through my downloaded data‚ I can see rewards for OhmHours that were constantly under 100 points when I first joined the program and now I generally receive upwards of 1200 points for an OhmHour with tier level and streak bonuses. I'm sure at the end of the day the "sweet spot" for OhmConnect to be able to function will be somewhere in between the two

  • No Pain No GainNo Pain No Gain 93035Member Posts: 404

    @Steve E Those possible changes you mentioned are going into effect this month, right as I was about to get to my 20th OH. I was wondering how OC was able to afford all the big payouts some users are getting. Obviously it's not a financially sustainable program with the streaks, bonus levels and 700 token Baseline Boost card, so all of those are being reduced. I'm disappointed not to have learned of OhmConnect earlier, but would rather have the program stick around than have to fold.

  • taZZZkittytaZZZkitty Member Posts: 90

    I don't want OC to have to fold of course but I am pretty disapointed that these new changes basically mean they are taking money from those of us who have been around longer and who save more during each OH and giving that money to those who just started just so they will stick around. I know why they are doing that of course but it sucks. It feels like I am being punished for my loyalty and hard work since I turn almost everything off during every OH even if it's over 100 outside and now I'm going to be making about 2/3 what I did before (because of my streak bonus it's not half). I wish they could have made another category that is way harder to reach even than platinum and leave it at 3 or 4 times bonus. Something like 80% saved over the past 30 OHs or something. I bet not many people would qualify so it wouldn't cost them that much and it would give us something to strive for to save more energy which is good for the company and the environment.

This discussion has been closed.