Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04

Points seem very low lately

My points have gone down dramatically lately even though it seems like the savings have been about the same. I am on a streak of 34 with this last OH and have a bonus of !170% for my next OH (don't remember if this was the same for the last one. My earnings were only $1.20 for the last one when it had been at least $4.00 and usually much more than that from previous ones. Are they being calculated correctly? If so, why did they go down so dramatically so suddenly?
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  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoPosts: 1,600Member, Moderator
    edited October 2017

    @Belle if you are platinum with 100% bonus and you scored 71 points for a 2kWh reduction it would seem that you are scoring a very low number of points per kWh. The lowest I've seen (unless you are part of a study group) is around 80 points per kWh. On this rate, platinum and with 100% streak bonus, for a 2 kWhr reduction you would score 80X2X(2+1)=480

    Can you post a screenshot like @Vicki above so we can look at some real numbers to see what's going on?

  • BelleBelle Posts: 89Member
    @UkiwiS I must have forgotten to add the decimal point in. I don’t even usually use 1 kWh, we get the high points because we reduce over 0.2 kWh. I can’t believe I put 2 kWh, that would be interesting to see how we could even use that much in our apartment. The highest usage for a single hour for us without reducing was 0.8 or something around there.
    I’m judging saying that I know the reason the point values are going down is because of how much it’s worth at the time. I once scored 1500+ in a single event, and that’s with reducing maybe 0.5 kWh.
  • DarrenTDarrenT Posts: 62Member
    edited October 2017

    @Vicki You're not alone in that observation. A couple months ago (end of August) a 2-hour event during a heat wave resulted in 322 points per kWh. Unfortunately that was only my second event so I only had a 5% streak bonus, but the base points were enticing and well worth sweating it out for two hours.

    This week, a 2-hour event on Monday (171 points per kWh) and a 3-hour event on Tuesday (102 points per kWh). That's in 100 degree heat as well. To further confuse me on which events will net me the most points for my effort, on Friday (10/20) a 1-hour event with overcast skies and temperatures in the low to mid 70's netted 163 points per kWh.

    I try to make the most out of my small forecasts (94% saved over all events), but ultimately it seems like the point system in its current state is not viable for the long term. Not only will energy become cheaper and cleaner, but streak bonuses, status bonuses, and referral bonuses all cut into the money that OhmConnect is actually bringing in (assuming they keep 20% of each event and divide the rest). The larger the bonuses get among the user base, the larger the imbalance gets between what OhmConnect receives for delivering reduced usage and what they're responsible for paying out. The only solution is to reduce the amount of points per kWh, which quickly turns things into a pyramid scheme where older users on higher streaks get a larger share of the points even though they may not have saved as much as a newer user. Until the point system changes, I would expect base point awards to continue to decrease as more and more users reach higher streaks.

    There is a point in which the points awarded aren't worth the effort. For myself, sitting through 100 degree heat for 3 hours, saving as much as I did and while earning as little as I did is quickly approaching that point. I assumed as temperatures cooled, OhmHours would become less frequent and not reward as much, but I have to admit, I was underwhelmed with the returns on 5 hours in 2 days in 95-100 degree heat.

    Please fact check me on any of my assumptions about how OhmConnect makes and shares profits with its user base. I think I've read a couple times on these forums that they pocket 20% and distribute the rest.

  • Agreed, we sat through 3 hours in around 100 degree heat and the return was dismal
  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoPosts: 1,600Member, Moderator
    > @SHELLEY FOERSTER said:
    > Agreed, we sat through 3 hours in around 100 degree heat and the return was dismal

    Shelley, can you define dismal? What was your forecast? How did you do relative to that forecast?

    My last 5 #OhmHours have paid out the following base points per kWh.

    127
    108
    117
    134
    178

    If you're platinum you can double those rates. They seem pretty good to me. What are you seeing?
  • Steve ESteve E Posts: 329Member, Moderator
    edited October 2017

    I had a 2 hour #OhmHour on Monday and a 3 hour #OhmHour yesterday. What is a little peculiar is that the base points I earned for both events was identical even though the second was for an hour longer

  • DarrenTDarrenT Posts: 62Member

    @Steve E Coincidence is all. Your points per kWh appear to be consistent with what myself and a couple of my friends got as well.

    If I understand how points are distributed (someone correct me if I'm wrong), this is a great example of why OhmHours you would think should pay a higher amount (due to length, heat, amount you saved, etc), simply don't.

    Starting with the credits OhmConnect bids for, that represents a fixed dollar amount and can be extrapolated to what they receive per kWh taken off the grid. OhmConnect takes 20% and needs to distribute the rest to the participants that saved. The more participants, the lower the points per kWh will be. However, that's not the only factor that reduces the overall points per kWh. Each participant can have a streak bonus and a status bonus that needs to be taken from that 80% pool that OhmConnect is distributing. So while the dollar amount per kWh that OhmConnect bid for may have been attractive on a points per kWh basis if bonuses weren't a thing, the only way to award all these participants with their growing (streak) and static (status) bonuses is to drop the points per kWh in the calculation.

    Looking at the 10/23 2-hour OhmHour, I saved 1.795kWH and earned 308 base points, you saved a pretty similar 1.687kWh and earned 290 points. However, due to bonuses, you ended up with 3 times the overall points (your 1610 to my 493) because you've been doing it longer. Hopefully you can see that while the payouts for people that have been here a while are still reasonable, but maybe not as great as before, they're going to continue to decline until participants lose interest because it's not worth their time.

    The advice to those just starting out to "stick with it and you'll be on the same streak I am now and be making X number of points" is just false hope, because by the time they get to that streak, people like you that have been here longer will be even further ahead and taking an even greater piece of the pie through bonuses, not savings (driving the points per kWh down even further).

    From my point of view, it's an unsustainable system if the goal is to get more people to save. Hopefully I'm wrong and I've overlooked some important details, but it's hard to imagine OhmConnect being around very long in its current state.

  • Steve ESteve E Posts: 329Member, Moderator

    @DarrenT - There have been numerous changes to how points and referrals are awarded / rewarded as the program evolves and no doubt there will be more as time goes on.

  • WaterGuyWaterGuy Posts: 414Member, Moderator

    @Steve E said:
    @DarrenT - There have been numerous changes to how points and referrals are awarded / rewarded as the program evolves and no doubt there will be more as time goes on.

    @DarrenT, I think your observation is a good one. While the money OC brings in might scale with the number of users, the portion awarded to the newest users will continue to decline under the current rewards system (unless large numbers of older users lose their streaks and restart at zero). OC is definitely aware of this, and I think you can expect to see some changes in the future to keep the program attractive to newer folks.

  • Summer1Summer1 Posts: 117Member
    Im at streak 17 only recived 50 points for saving whats going in ? Seems more streaks lower points
  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoPosts: 1,600Member, Moderator

    @Summer said:
    Im at streak 17 only recived 50 points for saving whats going in ? Seems more streaks lower points

    @Summer
    If you read the top couple of posts in this thread you'll get some idea on what goes into the calculations. BTW, you can do all this yourself if you are interested in seeing how the points are trending.

    1. What was your forecast?
    2. What was your usage?
    3. What's your status level?
    4. How many points per kWh did you earn for that particular Ohm Hour?
    5. Can you post a screenshot of your dashboard?

    With the above info we can probably help, if you don't want to do it yourself.

  • SD ChipSD Chip Posts: 146Member

    @Summer Can you post your points per kwh reduction? (Base points received / Forecast - Actual usage).
    Mine for the last 4 Ohm Hours:
    11/6 191 Points per Kwh
    11/3 89 Points per Kwh
    10/26 90 Points per Kwh
    10/17 180 Points per Kwh

  • Steve ESteve E Posts: 329Member, Moderator

    Here are my last 5

    The last col is Points per KwH

  • SFPowerSaverSFPowerSaver SFPosts: 43Member

    My last OH on 12/1 paid out 35 base points for 0.3617 kWh saved, which translates to about 97 points per kWh. I guess sub-100 points per kWh is starting to become the norm.

  • Steve ESteve E Posts: 329Member, Moderator

    As always they vary and here are my most recent ones and the last few have been well over 100 points per KwH

  • SFPowerSaverSFPowerSaver SFPosts: 43Member

    Your points per kWh is higher than mine for sure.

  • Kate from OhmConnectKate from OhmConnect Posts: 1,049Administrator

    All, do keep in mind that points vary by event. One of the biggest factors that OhmConnect has no control over is the cost of energy at the time--aka how much the event is actually worth to the grid, and thus how much we get paid.

  • The Little Ohmer TwinsThe Little Ohmer Twins Union CityPosts: 1,014Moderator

    ...and the cost of energy not only varies by time, but also location - more specifically, the forecasted demand for energy and strain on the grid. In other words, the need to acquire more energy or savings to alleviate that strain and meet the demand.

  • SFPowerSaverSFPowerSaver SFPosts: 43Member
    I understand this isn’t OC’s fault. I’m posting it more as a point of comparison to others.

    My last OH was 93 points/kWh. Doesn’t look like it’s getting better.
  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoPosts: 1,600Member, Moderator
    edited December 2017

    Here's how my last 10 have scored...First column is OhmHour Date, second is points/kWh

    12/8/2017 136.6
    12/6/2017 131.5
    12/1/2017 109.1
    11/22/2017 159.1
    11/17/2017 183.0
    11/14/2017 85.4
    11/9/2017 85.2
    11/6/2017 192.1
    11/2/2017 94.1
    10/24/2017 178.5

    Here's a 5 period moving average since the start of Feb

  • SFPowerSaverSFPowerSaver SFPosts: 43Member
    > @UkiwiS said:
    > Here's how my last 10 have scored...First column is OhmHour Date, second is points/kWh
    >
    > 12/8/2017 136.6
    > 12/6/2017 131.5
    > 12/1/2017 109.1
    > 11/22/2017 159.1
    > 11/17/2017 183.0
    > 11/14/2017 85.4
    > 11/9/2017 85.2
    > 11/6/2017 192.1
    > 11/2/2017 94.1
    > 10/24/2017 178.5
    >
    > Here's a 5 period moving average since the start of Feb

    Just out of curiosity, what time was your OH on 12/8? That was my last too, from 6-7pm.
  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoPosts: 1,600Member, Moderator

    @SFPowerSaver said:
    Just out of curiosity, what time was your OH on 12/8? That was my last too, from 6-7pm.

    6-7 pm

  • SFPowerSaverSFPowerSaver SFPosts: 43Member

    Thats the same as mine.

    So this is the math I used. I earn 44 base points for saving 0.49257-0.0191=0.47347 kWh.
    44 / 0.47347 = 92.9 points per kWh?

    Is that right?

  • UkiwiSUkiwiS San DiegoPosts: 1,600Member, Moderator
    edited December 2017

    @SFPowerSaver said:
    Thats the same as mine.

    So this is the math I used. I earn 44 base points for saving 0.49257-0.0191=0.47347 kWh.
    44 / 0.47347 = 92.9 points per kWh?

    Is that right?

    Yes, correct. The difference must be due to our locations. I'm with SDG&E and on the few times I've compared with others we have the same points per kWh for the same OhmHour.

  • SFPowerSaverSFPowerSaver SFPosts: 43Member
    edited December 2017

    @UkiwiS said:

    @SFPowerSaver said:
    Thats the same as mine.

    So this is the math I used. I earn 44 base points for saving 0.49257-0.0191=0.47347 kWh.
    44 / 0.47347 = 92.9 points per kWh?

    Is that right?

    The difference must be due to our locations.

    Makes sense. I bet I can see this difference on that CalISO price map during an OH.

  • The Little Ohmer TwinsThe Little Ohmer Twins Union CityPosts: 1,014Moderator
    @SFPowerSaver after you check on the CAISO price map, can you tell us how the % difference in kWh pricing for your areas compares to the % difference in $/kWh between you and @UkiwiS?
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